Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jesé/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 21:12, 6 September 2017 [1].

Jesé

Nominator(s): Liam E. Bekker (talk) 08:55, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Jesé, a Spanish footballer who currently plays for PSG. He previously played for Real Madrid, where he made nearly 100 appearances and won five titles. The article achieved GA status on 8 January this year, featured as a DYK on 17 January, and has been improved regularly since. I look forward to your feedback. Liam E. Bekker (talk) 08:55, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47

All of the images require ALT text.
The first two images in the body of the article should have the year in the caption.
These two sentences are awkwardly constructed and phrased and need to be revised (He became a father for the first time in the summer of 2012 at age 19, and named his son Jesé Jr. The boy lives with his mother, with whom Jesé is no longer in a relationship, in the Canary islands.). I would suggest completely rewriting these two sentences.
In what year, did he form Big Flow? Do you have any more information on the two singles (i.e. title, etc.)? It seems like this should be more developed.
I am not sure what is meant by "youth product".
The lead seems rather short and sparse compared to the what is presented in the body of the article.

Great work with the article. I am not familiar with these types of articles at all, but I just wanted to point out some areas that needed improvement (specifically the sentences on him being a father). Hopefully, you find my comments to be helpful. Aoba47 (talk) 15:22, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Response

Hi Aoba47, thank you for the comments. Your feedback is appreciated.

I have included the year in each of the image captions.
The section on his son has been reworded to read "His son, Jesé Jr., was born in 2012 and currently lives with the mother, with whom Jesé is no longer in a relationship, in the Canary islands."

It is a slight improvement, though I do not believe the phrase "with whom Jesé is no longer in a relationship" is good as it does sound somewhat awkward. I make the fact that Jesé is not in a relationship with the mother into its own sentence. Also, is there any more information on the mother (i.e. name, when they first starting dating, etc.)? The phrase "the mother" just sounds a little weird, so it would better to use the mother's name if known. Aoba47 (talk) 18:15, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I added more info on Big Flow - turns out the band has disbanded so it was good that you brought that up
Youth product is a commonly used football turn from someone who comes out of a club's youth academy - I have changed it to academy graduate which is clearer.
I've expanded the lead a little bit, added some elements from the body to the relevant sections and added a line on his musical career.

Let me know what you think. Thanks again, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 18:05, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your response. I just had a quick comment about the revisions to the part about this child, but otherwise, everything looks good. I am going to stay out of the support/oppose votes as I am not familiar enough with this subject matter to cast a decision either way. Good luck with this! Aoba47 (talk) 18:15, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind having a look at the Personal Life section one more time - I've added some new info that I think makes it flow better. Thank you very much for the feedback and assistance. It is appreciated. Liam E. Bekker (talk)

It looks a lot better; the only small comment that I have is that I do not believe you need the descriptive phrase in front of Instagram (i.e. social media platform) so I think you can safely remove that. Aoba47 (talk) 14:54, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Lemonade51 – Been a while since I've edited here, let alone review an article. Doesn't look as though the criteria has changed dramatically.

It's always worth having a look at FA-related articles for inspiration, and to get the gist of what is required in terms of sourcing and structure. If you have a look at Theirry Henry and John Wark for instance, their articles start chronologically. Both satisfy 1(b) of the criteria because it doesn't neglect any major info and there is context. Now when skim reading Jese's entry you'll notice it starts with his football career; his early years are tucked away in the personal life section. Think you should separate them.
Any ideas on how Jese got into football?
In the lead, "Outside of football he is also a musician," also is superfluous here Done
"His form at youth level for the club saw him attract interest from La Liga sides Espanyol, Mallorca and Barcelona, but he elected to sign for Real Madrid's youth system," how about opted? Done
"Jesé made his senior debut with the Real Madrid Castilla side," replace with for Done
"...drew early comparisons to fellow Real Madrid teammate ~~and multiple Ballon d'Or winner~~, Cristiano Ronaldo," again, superfluous
Not sure manager needs to be wikilinked
WP:WEIGHT could be an issue, how do you explain '2013–14' warranting one section?

My major concern is the article's stability, which is natural given Jesé's playing career is active. I think it could do with a copyedit and having a look at the reference section, some sources raise a red flag. Lemonade51 (talk) 18:23, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment: I haven't read this article yet, but I share Lemonade51's concerns about stability. Every article that I can remember at FAC about an active player has slipped appallingly after promotion as the nominator has not stayed around to keep the article up to date and of the required quality. Most have ended up at FAR. Part of me wonders how we can be certain that this will be stable? Perhaps this is something that should be discussed at WT:FAC, but this is a good starting point as I don't think we've had many nominations for current sportspeople recently. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:12, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sarastro1:The stability criterion was originally intended to address instability at the time of promotion -- editwars and so on -- which meant there was no stable version to be reviewed. The point you're making has come up before, though I don't recall it specifically in the context of sports figures. I don't think we've ever had consensus to regard articles on people whose noteworthy accomplishments are still in process as unstable in the sense of 1e. Personally I think it does mean an article is more likely to be demoted, since some primary authors will fail to maintain them, but I think it would be difficult (and unfair) to make that a criterion for promotion. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library)

That's no problem, you are right and I'm just thinking out loud on this one. I wasn't going to oppose. Sarastro1 (talk) 13:09, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Lemonade51

Hi Lemonade51, my apologies for the delay in responding. Thank you for the feedback.

I'll try and tweak the page in the coming days to get it to flow chronologically and also to address the minor concerns.
As for the 2013–14 season, it was separated because it's kind of the period (though short) between his youth years and his struggles after injury. I can try and trim it and incorporate it into the other two sub-headings if you think that would work better?.
Please see below response to Sarastro re: stability

Thanks again for the feedback, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 11:36, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Sarastro1

Hi Sarastro1, I understand yours and Lemonade's concerns given that he is an active player. I hadn't given stability much consideration in truth. For what it is worth, and you can have a look on my user page, I consistently maintain all of my created and GA articles as regularly as possible so the page won't be neglected while I'm here. What do you think would be the best way to proceed? Thanks for the feedback as well. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 11:36, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

I've copyedited a little; please revert as needed.

"Jesé's success drew praise from several quadrants with the player being described as the jewel in the crown of Los Blancos' academy": the source doesn't really support "several quadrants": it's really about Perez's opinion, with an additional comment that the "training ground" considers him a future star, though it's hard to know if this is just journalistic hyperbole. Done
"...off-field behaviour ultimately contributing to the club's decision": We haven't heard anything about off-field behaviour to this point, except for the comments about Mourinho years before. I think this needs clarification.

That's it for prose; the article is in good shape. I will try to find time to do a spotcheck and possibly a source review. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 05:38, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Mike

Hi Mike Christie, thank you for the review. It is most appreciated. I'll try and tackle your concerns (and the remaining points from other reviewers) this weekend. Liam E. Bekker (talk) 10:09, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment: I'm afraid this FAC seems to have stalled. It has been open for over six weeks without any declarations of support and with no real movement for over two weeks. Therefore I shall be archiving this shortly. It can be renominated after the usual two-week waiting period. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:11, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:12, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.